[Adminsces] Missió: Obtenir el cod i font del CES per a poder millorar-ho

Esteve Badia badia.orive a gmail.com
dll nov 14 18:57:23 CET 2011

Bona tarda,

Aquí la resposta d'en Tim Jenkin a les preguntes que li vaig fer. Quin
penseu que pot ser el nostre paper a partir d'això?


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: CES Administrator <admin a ces.org.za>
Date: 2011/11/14
Subject: Re: CES development
To: A bona hora - Ecoxarxa del Bages <horabages a gmail.com>

Hi Esteve

I apologise for taking so long to reply. I get so much email that sometimes
it goes off the page and then I see it no more.

The CES software is available to anyone who wants it, but as it is old
classic ASP code, no one is really interested in it. Also, it was designed
to work on our own servers only so it was never packaged in a way that is
useful to others.

For many years we have been trying to produce a PHP/MySQL version of it but
it never gets very far because the real development is always on the live
code. The PHP code never keeps up and we have to keep starting again as
things change.

I programmed the CES site more or less on my own and have now reached the
limit of what I can do. It is so big and complex now that I would never be
able to tackle a new version on my own. The current version is the result
of 10 years' work, so to create a new version in a new format with new
technologies would take years.

I am desperate to get together a team of programmers who could design and
create a new version that does what the current software does and more. The
current site is looking very old now and needs a complete redesign. The new
software has to be compatible with the old so that the 350 existing groups
can migrate to it without too much disruption. We also need to maintain the
network, which is what makes CES special.

If you can get together a team of people we could work together on the new
software that would be fantastic. There are many others who are interested
in helping, but they need something to work with. So far all I have for you
is the MySQL database we developed for the PHP version, but the PHP code so
far is a mess and I wouldn't like to make it available. It was hand
produced and I think these days one has to use some kind of PHP framework.
I am not particularly familiar with any of them. Everyone has their
favourite framework: Symfony, Codeigniter, CakePHP, Drupal...

The hardware infrastructure is not so crucial as hosting these days is very
cheap and easy. However it has always been our dream to have CES servers
all around the world, one in each country and all linked together through
the network. We have started to implement this by setting up a separate
server in Australia. Their server and ours will talk to each other through
a third bridging server we call "Clearing Central". It will allow people to
trade with others all over the world, even when their CES exchanges are
hosted on different servers.

So let me know how you feel about all this. It would be great if we can
really get going on the next version of CES, and get it out there so it is
the most popular software in the 'new economy'.



On 7 November 2011 01:05, A bona hora - Ecoxarxa del Bages <
horabages a gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> I'm Esteve from Spain (exchange HORA). In September we talked about the
> development of the new php/mysql CES software.
> In our country we have several coordinated exchange communities (those
> called "Ecoxarxa" and the "COOP" one). We really appreciate your work and
> it is being very useful for us. We are concerned about this software since
> it is crucial for us so we've a pair of questions:
> - Have you planned to liberate the source code of the CES software?
> Several of us are software developers interested in improve the tool and we
> could do it in a collaborative way like other open-source software
> projects. Furthermore we found philosophically important that the trading
> software we use is open source.
> - Which is the status of the new php CES development? Personally I'm
> interested in helping at this point. I'm a professional software developer
> with a bit of time and a lots of wants to participate in it. There are also
> other developers here in the Spanish exchanges that could also help at this
> point.
> In addition to the programming labor, we could also help with hardware
> infrastructure. We could have a server with the CES software
> installed maintaining our geographically close exchanges. We are
> collaborating with a group of system administrators having several
> servers only for social causes. It is feasible to use part of this
> infrastructure. Well, these are only ideas that need to be studied.
> Please let us know which are your plans for the future of CES software, a
> key piece in building human-scale and fair economies.
> Thank you and best regards,
> Esteve

El 7 de novembre de 2011 1:22, al <al a blogmail.cc> ha escrit:

> +1
> Gràcies, Esteve.
> Al 07/11/11 00:37, En/na A bona hora - Ecoxarxa del Bages ha escrit:
>> Hola!
>> He enviat un mail al Tim Jenkin del CES demanant-li per l'alliberament
>> del codi del CES i pels plans del nou CES en PHP. Quan tingui noticies
>> seves us ho faré saber.
>> Per altra banda, penso que el CES -tot i que és una eina immensament
>> útil i suficient fins al moment- té molts aspectes de fons molt
>> millorables. Per exemple la interfície d'usuari (poc intuitiva i
>> agradable), en tipus de límits d'endeutament (només límit fix), no
>> acceptació de cobraments, relació entre xarxes (més de dues opcions),
>> les llistes d'ofertes i demandes també podrien ser millors,
>> connectivitat amb altres servidors (serveis web), ratio de conversió
>> entre les diferents monedes i altres.
>> M'atreveixo a pronosticar que és tècnicament més factible fer-ne un de
>> nou (òbviament utilitzant l'experiència del CES) pensant en un model
>> modular i col·laboratiu de desenvolupament que no arreglar l'actual (més
>> enllà de millorar cosetes petites). Sobretot ho dic tenint en compte que
>> la mateixa gent del CES es decanten per aquesta opció: volen fer-ne un
>> de nou amb PHP en lloc de ASP més que millorar l'existent. Tampoc estem
>> parlant d'enviar ningú a la lluna :-).
>> Penso que la millor opció per nosaltres seria participar activament en
>> el desenvolupament d'aquest nou CES junt amb ells. Jo m'hi vaig oferir
>> -i van acceptar, però al final es va aturar- i he aprofitat aquesta
>> ocasió per reiterar-li la oferta. L'únic que no tinc segur és si això
>> tira realment endavant i si tenen ganes de tibar del carro o només són
>> bones intencions.
>> Finalment dir que en Gorka possiblement obri un grup a la xarxa social
>> per discutir aquests assumptes de forma més pública, així que ens llegim
>> pel mail o per l'elgg.
>> Una abraçada,
>> Esteve
>> El 6 de novembre de 2011 20:03, vadó <vado a tresones.com
>> <mailto:vado a tresones.com>> ha escrit:
>>    hola!  penso el mateix que la Blackhold. Crec que la tendencia de tots
>>    els sistemes de moneda complementaria sera unir-se - el ces ja ho està
>>    fent, i que la prioritat es que la gent hi confiï i s'extengui a la
>>    societat, pero no estaria malament tenir un pla de reserva.
>>    El 06/11/2011 19:59, Blackhold escribió:
>>     > El 6 de novembre de 2011 19:48, Gemma Solanas
>>     > <gemma.solanas.i a hotmail.com
>>    <mailto:gemma.solanas.i@**hotmail.com <gemma.solanas.i a hotmail.com>>>
>> ha escrit:
>>     >> Hola,
>>     >> l'altre dia vaig estar parlant amb un informàtic que em va dir que
>>     >> també estava interessat en crear una mena de CES nou. A part, a
>>    Tarragona
>>     >> també van crear el progrma NAPIA per fer intercanvis però no se
>>    com va
>>     >> acabar la història ni si estava molt desenvolupat o no.
>>     > l'avantatge del CES és que és una eina que ja porta temps
>>    funcionant i
>>     > a nivell internacional, simplement s'ha d'aconseguir que alliberin
>> el
>>     > codi...
>>     >
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